Deleting the preinstalled Facebook app.

[TheWoanderer]

I am (We are) being denied the right to delete the Facebook app. Over the past few days websites are highlighting the fact that other apps scan your device for evidence that Facebook is installed and communicate their data to Facebook via their use of Facebook developer tools. News agencies like the Financial Times, Bloomberg, The Independant and many others are highlighting this fact with alarming.concern.

Disabling is not the same as deleting and there are constant reports of data breaches on an almost weekly basis. 

Under the terms and conditions rooting the device voids your warrenty. 

It has also come to light via these same websites and news sites that Facebook has paid mobile phone companies to pre install the app. This in itself raises serious concerns as to why they would need to do this, it leaves one incredibly sceptical as to their intentions when the option to delete has been taken away from the consumer. Another question is given the cost of the devices such as my Xperia Xz3 at nearly £700, it leads one to believe that the payment received from Facebook has not been passed onto the consumer in helping to bring the price of the device down. 

It would be fair to say that we have been sold out, which in countries such as Europe under the current GDPR rulings is illegal especially given the fact that 'we' the consumer were not made aware of this fact prior to the purchase of the device. The only safe way to safegaurd your information is to not install any other apps or deny those apps their permissions rendering them useless and pointless and to only use what ships with the device, as details of rogue apps only become available after they have been discovered to be rogue apps. This therefore means I am also being denied the ability of using my device to its full capacity in order to ensure my data is not harvested and passed onto Facebook for nefarious purposes. All correspondence with Sony ends with a statement that implies they have pre installed the app to give us 'the consumer' the best experience and that it is what we want, when in fact this is the absolute worst experience for some of us. The fact that a deal was possibly made with Facebook suggests this to not be the case, that it is more so because it was a business deal, not because it is what we want. We are more than capable of visiting the app store to download the latest version should we want it. Which is exactly what happens when you first power up the device anyway because the Facebook app updates almost weekly meaning that despite the app shipping out of the box, it is already out of date by the time it reaches the consumer. 

This is not simply a Sony issue... Other mobile device developers are coming under fire too.

Amazingly, the solution is simple, allow us to delete Facebook and you will retain the respect of your customers. I'm considering selling my Xperia Xz3 and moving on to a company that does not force Facebook onto its customers and using my Xperia Xz that does not have facebook on it at all until such time as I identify the company I will support here on. 

Its a pity really, because I was pretty impressed with the recent PSN announcement and was supportive of it but this is enough to cause me to drop all support for Sony on all levels, from my car stereo, to my tv's, my surround sounds, my PlayStation. Why? Because its an insult to be forced to support a company such as Facebook that has been known to adjust users newsfeeds to engineer responses as well as having been exposed for having upwards of at least 10 data breaches. For me, this is one step too far. Sort it out Sony. This behaviour could be seen as non other than a blatant disregard for consumer concern. Its just wrong. 

[disimes95]

@TheWoanderer

I will escalate this! 

[TheWoanderer]

If you have the ability to do so, I for one would greatly appreciate it if you could. It is a very serious concern for me and I'm sure for others too. There is something inherently wrong with this whole situation. My contact with Google Android Development was positive and they believe you have the right to delete 3rd Party Apps. Facebook Android Development have not replied and due to the information transpiring concerning the aforementioned 'business deal' its highly unlikely they will as I believe they are aware of the legal implications surrounding the issue and know that any negative response could be used in legal action. Sony's response has been far from desirable and lacks any solution to the issue. I do believe this is a serious situation that is causing some of us to seek further action which I would assume no one really wants to do. Nor should we have to do so.....  I do genuinely appreciate your response and am truly grateful if you have the means in which to escalate the concern. 

[Strampke]

Hi @TheWoanderer

You're right and I agree with you.

This is worldwide policy.

The EU opposed Google about preinstalled Google apps and this it what will be the answer of Google.

When you think about it you might realise yourself that we take lots of 'free' apps for granted.

I'm shure you are aware that free isn't free.

In exchange you're delivering all your private personal data to Google and producers of all kinds of 'free' apps.

Even open source isn't free of data collecting.

Again, you're right in what you write, however be realistic.

Don't get too angry cause it doesn't help you and beware of 'free' apps and anything that is offered to you without you asking for it.

They are after your private information or your money, preferably both.

[TheWoanderer]

I am fully aware of what you're saying my friend. The issue is that I didn't ask for this app. Had I volunterily installed it I would have no right to complain. I'm being forced to have it. I do not use Facebook and never will. I actually don't mind certain data being used but I do mind who I share it with. The only way a consumer can make a stand is to not use or utilise a product. This option has been removed and therefore prevents me having a choice over my data security. A short bit of time spent browsing the technology, science and business sectors of the news websites will help inform you of current issues. As I said, my issue is purely and only facebook and this is because of their well documented history if data breaches, sharing information with right wing establishments and their very questionable habit of having adjusted users newsfeeds to engineer responses in the past. As a thinking individual, how could I possibly trust such an organisation. The app is not required to improve the base operation of our devices.... It is a third party application and is far from essential. I do understand what you are saying but you are also telling me to let it go? I'm afraid that would be the most foolish thing a person could do because then you may as well expect every dark and nefarious organisation to create an app and pay to have it installed on your device, a device that you have payed for and allow them to make money off you and use your information to help organisations find ways to register your political views so that they can ensure the very party you support does not get a chance at succeeding when it comes to election time, they can direct advertisements to you that sit on the opposite political spectrum to your own.... Which is exactly what was happening with the Cambridge Analytical scandal and was trialed via Facebook years before where they deliberately took positive users and placed dark stories into their newsfeeds to engineer negative responses from them. Knowing all this information, how could you possibly sit back and accept this situation of being forced to have that companies app installed on your device knowing they have done such things. I am not wrong in raising this concern and despite appreciating your response... I have to say I cannot agree to this. I do hope you understand. My issue is purely with Facebook and being forced to have their application registered on my device. 

[TheWoanderer]

I checked out your link concerning Google too. That is a different problem persay and not really relevant to this issue. Personally I agree with the ruling. Google have monopolised the market and driven competition out. They hold 96% of all searches and have bought out rival companies to maintain their position. An example is Waze a brilliant satellite navigation maps app that was starting to overtake Google Maps due to its user generated updates and real time ability to warn users of road travel issues as they happened and the first to incorporate a Spotify option that allowed you to play your music whilst using the app. Remember that Google only got to this position by being supported by its users from the early 90's through our info that it got for free, so to suddenly start charging for YouTube was actually out of order as we as consumers made it what it was. The reason this has all come about is because it wanted to charge for its services, the rules change when you charge for a service you see. You are now a business, not just a service provider. It was doing this that caused all the interest in the legalities surrounding their organisation and frankly doing so they shot themselves in the foot. Greed is a terrible thing. It was not privacy concerns that caused this, that is being used as a scapegoat because Google, if you remember was not paying its taxes. So I believe this is a good thing and will allow consumers to have a choice again and allow smaller business the chance to garner customers. But let's leave it at that because it has no relevance to this current concern in truth and has no place on this forum as its not a sony issue unless purely for discussion purposes... It's a can of worms really and one I am very knowledgeable about and could easily argue the point over, especially concerning advertising. I do believe though that with the advance of AI that finally advertising may become relevant to a user. An example is this...

I listen to alternative and metal music... YouTube has my likes and dislikes so why am I seeing advertisements for Niki Minaj? Because the advertising company that pays for her advertisement paid the most for as many views as possible. Think about that for a moment!!! Where as a band like In This Moment can't afford that level of advertising. Who would I more than likely purchase. In This Moment of course. It actually has nothing to do with your likes and dislikes and everything to do with cash. And we all need to make cash. Monopolising is a terrible thing that destroys the chances of the smaller artist, business or industry. It's all about perspective, and morals can guide perspective but you will too often find that morals very seldom guide business. 

[Strampke]

It's the money my friend, it's the money.

And basicaly it is very very simple.

Did you get the story about the Macedonian family that spoofed the web with false information to support right wing sentiments in the USA?

These people were not at all interested in politics!!!

They stumbled upon a way of attracting traffic to their websites.

Visitors attract clicks on advertisments and clicks raise money.

Real life sometimes is more stupid than the strangest fantasy.

For the moderators:

You're allowed to delete my contributions in this post.

I couldn't resist.

[Thanos22]

From what I have recently learned, the default facebook on Xperia phones is not actually an app, but an installed link. So when you disable it, it wipes out the installed app ,but keeps the link. So the link is what we see as app. 

[TheWoanderer]

I don't think so...

My correspondence with Sony Developers would have highlighted that fact. Their words were, it is built into the system, it can't be deleted. Only disabled. 

And apparently that is the same as deleted. 

I think they think I'm a few brain cells short of a child. 

But apparently Mark Zuckerberg believes we want targeted advertising. It makes us feel  safer!!! 

So when I searched for a mattress a few months ago, found my mattress, bought it but 3 weeks later I'm still getting mattress adverts even though I don't need one anymore and the worst thing is... 3 weeks later. . Its half the price. 

Maybe they think I collect mattresses... 

Wish they would show me Vinyl adverts... I used to post enough about my Vinyl collection. 

Go figure... 

Or how about this one, a friend of mine got knocked off his bicycle, so I asked him if he was OK, if his rather expensive bike was damaged and if he had been to the police. The next day I have an advert 'Meet local single police officers who love cycling in your area' 

SAY WHAT!!! I'm married (well I was then) 

Or I watched a Jordan Petterson documentary and because he is being associated with Right Wing, MGTOW and Incels... My suggestions are suddenly filled with... You guessed it... All of the above...

But it's OK. The organisations collecting my data must be in the process of developing some amazing mattresses to sell me.... 

You listening Sony? You up for making mattresses, preferably with Prisms and Jordan Petterson face on, it's what the data suggests I want!!  Preinstall that on the next model. 

I digress. 

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@Thanos22 wrote:

From what I have recently learned, the default facebook on Xperia phones is not actually an app, but an installed link. So when you disable it, it wipes out the installed app ,but keeps the link. So the link is what we see as app. 

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[najodleglejszy]

>I don't think so

and I do think so. I just checked and the disabled Facebook "app" on my phone takes only 184 kB. the actual app is hundreds of megabytes big when installed.