topic Re: Real improvement in camera software in XZ Series

Real improvement in camera software

Renu1 — Wed, 24 Oct 2018 07:10:12 GMT

Hey there guys. Just wanna share with you my findings with the new sony xperia xz3 and its camera. So, even if it has the same hardware as xz1 and xz2, software processing seems to have improved, both for low light and day light. Here is a daylight comparison with the Iphone XS and a low light comparison with the Galaxy S9+. And to my eyes... it's better than both:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfykvyh-IVU&t=511s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAJndlOAmB8&t=215s

Re: Real improvement in camera software

Alessio_841 — Sun, 28 Oct 2018 09:28:56 GMT

Mah, if for you a extremely grainy and full of noise low light photos are better than cleaner ones, I think it is your personal taste but not objective good looking shots.

Happy you like them but customers look for clean low light photos as other brands offers and sells confirm.

Re: Real improvement in camera software

Lord_viridis — Mon, 29 Oct 2018 15:10:34 GMT

@Alessio_84 wrote:
Mah, if for you a extremely grainy and full of noise low light photos are better than cleaner ones, I think it is your personal taste but not objective good looking shots.
Happy you like them but customers look for clean low light photos as other brands offers and sells confirm.

What?

I know which ones look cleaner to me, and it's not the one with an 80% noise reduction filter on it...

Re: Real improvement in camera software

Britexz3 — Wed, 07 Nov 2018 19:20:21 GMT

My xz3 camera pics are really really really really really really noisy. How did you manage to get these shots good?

I'm very much disappointed with my handset.

Also I'd like to mention that whenever i turn on hdr the it seems as if the colours has committed suicide. Turn off the hdr and you get vivid colours. Is it supposed to be like that??

Front camera is always out of focus(blurry) on the final image even though i could focus it correctly on the viewfinder after many attempts.

Improvements?

Re: Real improvement in camera software

Lord_viridis — Thu, 08 Nov 2018 13:36:10 GMT

@Britexz3 wrote:
Also I'd like to mention that whenever i turn on hdr the it seems as if the colours has committed suicide. Turn off the hdr and you get vivid colours. Is it supposed to be like that??

Yes, HDR literally means high dynamic range, vivid colours are actually less range due to crushing over X amount of luminance, HDR video allows you to have more natural colour detail and if editing, allows you to add more effect including vividness, without losing detail.

Re: Real improvement in camera software

Lord_viridis — Thu, 08 Nov 2018 13:36:51 GMT

@Britexz3 wrote:
My xz3 camera pics are really really really really really really noisy. How did you manage to get these shots good?
I'm very much disappointed with my handset.

Can you post an example?

Re: Real improvement in camera software

Alessio_841 — Sat, 10 Nov 2018 08:04:16 GMT

@viridis

Are you serious?

Really you want try to compare 12 Mpx against 19 Mpx? Neither a child would do this joke...

To you, Sony forum moderator, obviously look cleaner Sony shots. To ALL other customers, ALL reviewers, ALL photographers XZ3 shots are EXTREMELY noisy, sharp but granular, full of noise in daylight and especially low light. Plus, it burns highlights and lose details in dark shadows.

There are a tons of images in ALL websites dedicated useless post them here.

So, stop FAKE post, here is a serious forum!

Re: Real improvement in camera software

Britexz3 — Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:38:27 GMT

@Alessio_84 wrote:
To ALL other customers, ALL reviewers, ALL photographers XZ3 shots are EXTREMELY noisy, sharp but granular, full of noise in daylight and especially low light. Plus, it burns highlights and lose details in dark shadows.

Exactly what I'm going through. Even in broad day light, the images are very noisy. I can't believe I'm using a 2018 handset. When u zoom in a bit you could notice the granular effect. I'll post an image later

The handset is in my show case now

Re: Real improvement in camera software

Lord_viridis — Sat, 10 Nov 2018 14:05:08 GMT

@Alessio_84 wrote:
@Viridis
Are you serious?
Really you want try to compare 12 Mpx against 19 Mpx? Neither a child would do this joke...
To you, Sony forum moderator, obviously look cleaner Sony shots. To ALL other customers, ALL reviewers, ALL photographers XZ3 shots are EXTREMELY noisy, sharp but granular, full of noise in daylight and especially low light. Plus, it burns highlights and lose details in dark shadows.
There are a tons of images in ALL websites dedicated useless post them here.
So, stop FAKE post, here is a serious forum!

Yes, I was serious.

You can't gain more detail from photos that have noise reduction set to stupid levels...

But you can add noise reduction to a photo that has grain but still has detail.

Take his photo of his face.

It's noisy on the xz3 but the Samsung has added a noise reduction so harsh, it's lost all definition and clarity, just for the sake of being "noise free"

Meanwhile if he too the Sony shot and added a luminance noise reduction and balanced it with detail and structure, the Sony shot could easily be made noiseless without losing all the structure and definition.

But by just adding an 80% noise reduction in processing, which the Samsung's do in low light, youve lost that detail forever, you can't edit that info back in.

So yes, I'd rather have a photo with noise and detail, over a smoothed over detail lacking photo ANY day of the week.

Re: Real improvement in camera software

Britexz3 — Sat, 10 Nov 2018 16:41:29 GMT

I don't want to argue but what about raw image option for image with preserved details and much more noise free and oil paint effect free images from auto mode?

From what you told, it's good to have the details with some noise on it but in the end you would still end up Photoshoping the image to appear pleasing rather than noisy. Why not give that result in auto mode instead of giving a normal user the additional step to process the image further? For professionals you could always output the raw file which i think this phone lacks..

I'm confused... Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm still a hardcore Sony fan or else i wouldn't have gone for this handset, but the results are so unbelievable.

Re: Real improvement in camera software

Lord_viridis — Sat, 10 Nov 2018 17:38:22 GMT

Oh no, you're smack on correct, 100%

If given the option myself and on my other photography equipment, I SOLELY use RAW for full sensor output.

As my Xperia devices don't output RAW I offer my own choices based on jpeg which between the devices Ive used, Xperia are closer to the sensor output as opposed to those that HEAVILY post process as part of the jpeg creation.

However I might add, low light RAW off ANY phone look garbage and in many cases you have the choice of multi frame overly noise reduced jpeg, or unusable raw which take some serious editing to even look acceptable, let alone what you'd call good.

That's probably why my preference has been Xperias in low light, not overly processed and still a little room for good editing, it's not everyone's liking, but for me, it's better than most alternatives out there.

Re: Real improvement in camera software

Britexz3 — Sat, 10 Nov 2018 17:50:07 GMT

My phone was on some stupid firmware version which is not even listed in Xperifirm or device check page on sony website. I didnot get any update notification to the October patch. So i just flashed a US firmware and my camera is performing different. The oil paint effect is reduced to a great extent now. The noise is also reduced even though it still exists. Does the firmware version have something to do with camera settings? Everyone's sleeping now, so I'll post the results tomorrow.

Re: Real improvement in camera software

Lord_viridis — Sat, 10 Nov 2018 17:56:15 GMT

It won't be a region thing, nor affected by camera settings, but yes, updates can include an improvement to camera functionality.

Re: Real improvement in camera software

Britexz3 — Sun, 11 Nov 2018 02:12:28 GMT

I'm wondering why the images that come with the phone with embedded 'shot on Xperia' does not have any information regarding the iso, shutter speed etc in its details menu option. When you take a picture with the handset it gets embedded. Why is this difference?

Re: Real improvement in camera software

Alessio_841 — Sun, 11 Nov 2018 14:51:01 GMT

What is stupid and not serious is compare details of photos taken at different Mpx.

Compare 12 Mpx (Sony) with 12 Mpx (Samsung) would be realistic.

More the face taken with Samsung seams not in focus.

About details aspect I agree with you, I also prefer more details over heavy noise reduction.

What is very stupid is BIONZ don't elaborate the shots to make them noiseless as can be done in post processing with Photoshop.

Ok to have shots more close to sensor output to elaborate (eventually) later on PC but this is an approach for professional photographers, not all users. And give a bad results when showed on big screens without post processing corrections.

Re: Real improvement in camera software

skycamefalling — Sun, 11 Nov 2018 16:25:02 GMT

@Alessio_84 wrote:
What is stupid and not serious is compare details of photos taken at different Mpx.
Compare 12 Mpx (Sony) with 12 Mpx (Samsung) would be realistic.

Why would this be realistic?

In a car race, should the faster car also drive slower to align with the slowest car because it's stupid and not serious to compare a faster with a slower car?

According to your thinking, it would only be fair if the night shots with the Samsung phone would be done with the smaller aperture because Sony only has f/2.0 so it's stupid and not serious to compare this with the f/1.5 of the Samsung.

The Xperia has the advantage of more MPx so of course this benefit must be utilitzed in the comparison because that's what the user gets in reality.

A serious test compares the photos a typical user get out of both phones and if the phone with more MPx takes better photos than the phone with larger aperture then it means that Sony has the better camera concept.

Re: Real improvement in camera software

Britexz3 — Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:15:48 GMT

Everyone's right in their perspective. But I'd like to add by saying this again that for the majority of users out there aren't professionals when they come to camera. I can see that most of the people choose to buy a handset just by looking at the camera performance. By performance i mean pleasing output from camera and not an image with noise having the justification of additional details.

Everyone want a camera that goes in their pocket. For professionals, they go for dslr or similar devices and not a smartphone.

Yes, pros could take part in a competition to show off their skills using a smartphone, that's ok. But majority of the users out there want their camera TO TAKE PICTURES AND DO THE POST PROCESSING FOR THEM INSTANTLY AND OUTPUT PHOTOS THAT ARE GOOD TO LOOK AT. No one neither likes their blemishes or sunburns to be on a picture or the image to be full of noise.

And for the pros out there there's always a raw output mode.

We could simply argue that Sony has done this kind of post processing to justify the preservation of details, but in real it seems they are beating around the bush.

This isn't an argument, it's just a frustrated customer's or rather a hardcore Sony fan's humble opinion.

Re: Real improvement in camera software

Strampke — Tue, 13 Nov 2018 21:15:57 GMT

If you want (what I think are) reliable reviews then go DxOMark.

If you want good pictures then go for a decent DSLR camera.

Re: Real improvement in camera software

Britexz3 — Tue, 13 Nov 2018 21:37:59 GMT

@Strampke wrote:
If you want (what I think are) reliable reviews then go DxOMark. (alright)
If you want good pictures then go for a decent DSLR camera.

I just want a brand like Sony to perform at least average in case of camera when they offer such a thing inside a smartphone. Dslr don't fit in the pocket and thus the idea of a camera inside a phone or else phones would have been just phones.

The point is -

Sony: hey I've this camera integrated in the flagship model phone which performs great and it costs $$

Me :Ok I'd like to buy one but i want it to be on par with the competition and the price being asked for.

OOB Camera Experience: nothing like advertised.

Justice?

Re: Real improvement in camera software

Strampke — Tue, 13 Nov 2018 22:34:20 GMT

I understand your disappointment.

Next time: first check reviews.

My opinion:

Don't expect too much from any phone camera, they're perfect for snapshots.

My Xperia X btw delivers better low light photos than my wife's Nikon 3400 with Nikon 18-200 lense and my own Canon S110 is beaten too under low light circumstances.

In bright daylight the Xperia X is miles away from the Nikon quality but the difference between Xperia X and Canon S110 cannot be observed at first sight.

In fact my phone has become first choice. It's snappy, always at hand and delivers reasonably good quality.

Even more, my Xperia X has already taken a picture while the real cameras are still being grabbed at and mostly are too late to capture those special precious moments.