topic Re: IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied. in XZ Series

IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied.

IlluX — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 11:52:59 GMT

Hey there,

I just received message from Sony Germany stating that the XZP must not be full submerged in water.

I'm curious - did Sony developers ever read the ISO standard on ingress protection? The phone is IP68 certified, that means and let me quote:

"IP68 - Protected from long term immersion up to a specified pressure." That specified pressure is commonly 5 feet, 1.5 meters or 0,15 bar.

Now, as Sony claims their smartphones are IP68 certified that means we can all spend our days submerging our phones in water without being scared of any damages - am I right, dear Sony staff?

If not, that would mean you either didn't test your deviced or you lied on purpose. Both make excellent reasons for lawsuites or should AT LEAST make you consider to refund all devices sold so far.

Once again, a standard is a standard because it defines a standard. You cannot redefine a standard on your own.

To underline my arguments, let me quote your webpage (yes, the Sony webpage)

http://support.sonymobile.com/global-en/dm/waterproof/

"IPX8. Protected against the effects of continued immersion in water at depths greater than 1 metre. The exact conditions are specified for each device by the manufacturer."

So, the XZP is waterproof - right?

Re: IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied.

Sebi6673 — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:14:22 GMT

It is certainly a lie. The pressure sensor picks up when you gently blow air into the USB port and if you remove the sim cap and inhale some air out of the USB port you can clearly feel how the air flows virtually unobstructed.

And dear trained mon....ahem.... Sony moderators, before you copy paste a general reply and offer unhelpful solutions, keep in mind that this is an issue affecting a lot of users. Most water submersions in a sink lead to water damage in USB area. And I saw no 1 meter deep sink. Nor were they submerged for more than 10 minutes. You can find some YouTube videos where users are starting to complain.

We know Sony messed up, tricking us into buying a premium that is only premium-ish. We don't need bogus solutions so please don't insult our intelligence. We need accountability, admitting that this is NOT an IP68 rated phone. Samsung and iPhone do a lot better when submerged. So did previous sony releases. This is my last acquisition from Sony.

Re: IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied.

Thelastofus — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 13:58:57 GMT

If the phone does not pass this test it's definitely not waterproof! If the phone passes this still is not 100% confirmation that your phone is definitely waterproof. The chance is rather high though. Did you ever wonder if your device is really waterproof but do not want to find that out by dunking it in water? Here is a test which uses just the phone and it's service mode (or any barometer app). 1. dial *#*#7378423#*#* 2. go to "Service Tests" 3. go to "pressure sensor" 4. slightly compress the phone using your thumb and index finger by pressing on the display and back SLIGHT PRESSURE. No Berserker mode please! This is not a crush-your-phone contest! --> if all seals are intact the pressure should rise. Your phone with intact seals is a closed system. If you compress the volume the pressure goes up as a result. If any of the seals is compromised pressure will not rise.

Re: IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied.

Sebi6673 — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 14:30:10 GMT

We know how to test the phone.... We're coming from xda.

None of my previous xperias were this poorly waterproofed. And I'm ranting because of some generic mail i've got from sony.

Check the original thread https://forum.xda-developers.com/xz-premium/help/xzp-waterproof-usb-port-vulnerable-t3624382

Re: IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied.

Thelastofus — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 14:48:30 GMT

I'm sorry .i think XZP is not waterproof i've tested an XC and it didn't looks as bad as XZP .

Re: IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied.

stanlykubrick — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:20:03 GMT

Clearly Sony has provided contradicting information. They list in writing to NOT submerge the phone under water, and at the same time tell us it is water proof!

At best it should be rated IP64 or possibly IP65.

I'm not too sure about the IP dust rating either as it may need to be lowered.

So either they are lying, or they have a missprint on their sales promotions where they state IP68!

Shame on you Sony! I love the phone, but I hate false advertising! The biggest thing that will ruin your reputation is false advertising! And when it comes to cell phones, and all the "experts" who look for any flaw whatsoever in these things, you will be caught! I see a law suit on the horizon for sure unless you come clean immediately!!!

Re: IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied.

LogicAnalyzer — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:21:05 GMT

What you're describing has nothing to do witj waterproofing. Just because Sony makes a waterproof phone, doesn't mean they want the liability. The phone is waterproof, and ip68 certification is independent, so I have no idea how Sonycould lie about that. Anyways, all other manufacturers dothe same thing to avoid liability; water damage is not covered. It's never a good idea to submerge your phone even if it's water proof. It's meant to be a safety measure, not a feature. Even a slightly worn out sim tray seal would destroy your phone. As for the pressure when blowing onthe USB port, that is normal as there are several areas in the phon (including both speaker grilles) where air is purposely allowed to pass through, but not water.

Oh, and LOL @ the guy saying that the phone is not water proof because of a youtube video where the phone was completely frozen and later heated with boiling water...ya, because that's exactly what IP68 means, right?

Re: IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied.

IlluX — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:36:00 GMT

"ip68 certification is independent"

Nay. It's not.

The ISO standard is called a standard because - right - it is a standard.

https://www.iso.org

Re: IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied.

Sebi6673 — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:39:09 GMT

The frozen video thingy is an extreme. There are other other videos with people complaining about being unable to charge after it dries out or that vibrator motor shorting out.

Other manufacturers actually make waterproof phones - samsung, apple and they are nowhere near as sensible as XZp is to outside factors. And I am not talking about a worn out phone, I'm talking about a brand new device with a premium price tag which states a standard of IP68. Do the pressure test, see how fast it looses pressure on the USB cap, compare it to other wateproof devices and then imagine how it can possibly survive to the standard claimed on their website. http://support.sonymobile.com/gb/dm/waterresistant/

I love the phone, it's just the poor quality they put into that insulation - considering it's flagship price. I tested the XZ and X Performance. The insulation in those two was way better.

Re: IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied.

Goldkoron — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:56:36 GMT

I agree, the waterproofing seems like it was an afterthought with this phone. Maybe Sony messed it up when trying out a new USB port?

I bought Sony this time because I wanted good waterproofing, this is incredibly disappointing.

Re: IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied.

rayvin400 — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:36:18 GMT

ive read somewhere that the phone is only waterproof when the ports are sealed. I think this is on sony's website somewhere. How are we supposed to seal the ports?

Either way, between the camera issues, this waterproofing thing and the weird visible pixels and off color tones (on mine at least) and not being able to use 4k as we wish- it seems Sony is trying its hardest to make me never purchase a Sony again.

Re: IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied.

Goldkoron — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:38:08 GMT

The older Z series phones had seals for every port like on the SIM/SD tray. The newer phones do not have those anymore because their waterproofing was supposed to have transcended needing those.

Re: IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied.

rayvin400 — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:41:09 GMT

they changed it on their website. I remember clearly it used to say waterproof- now it says rain resistant basically...

Re: IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied.

Goldkoron — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:43:23 GMT

It was advertised as IP68 exactly as this post basically says. IP68 is IP68, and this phone does not seem to be so.

Re: IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied.

IlluX — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 19:37:10 GMT

It is necessary to build up pressure on Sony as they are misleading customers, likely on purpose. Vodafone Germany OS currently reviewing the issue to check if it is sufficient to accept returns. If so, that is pressure enough for me. That would make for an amazing marketing desaster.

Re: IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied.

Uliwooly — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 19:53:42 GMT

@IlluX @Goldkoron @rayvin400 @Sebi6673 @LogicAnalyzer

The Xperia XZ Premium it's water resistant, NOT waterproof.

https://www.sonymobile.com/global-en/products/phones/xperia-xz-premium/

Let it rain Built to withstand splashes, spills and unexpected showers

Rain is one less thing to think about when you’re out and about with the Xperia XZ Premium. Water resistant4, dust-proof and reinforced with durable Corning® Gorilla® Glass 5, it’s pretty much life-resistant.

https://www.sonymobile.com/global-en/products/phones/xperia-xz-premium/design/

Stands up to water

Certified IP65/68, the Xperia XZ Premium is protected against water spills and dust. You can even take calls in the rain without worrying.

If any of you have a screenshot of the Xperia XZ Premium advertized as waterproof do post it here.

Re: IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied.

stanlykubrick — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 20:57:11 GMT

Ummmm, IP68 by definition means waterproof does it not?

http://blog.wika.com/knowhow/definition-ip-68-rating/

Re: IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied.

Jonyny — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 20:57:43 GMT

@uliwooly

If you read the OP's post, it is clear that the point is not about word choice of water registant or water proof.

What OP was pointing out:

XZP is IPX8 which means the device is protected against the effects of continued immersion in water at depths greater than 1 metre.

Then why did he receive message from Sony Germany stating that the XZP must not be full submerged in water?

If it can't be submerged, they should not call it IPX8.

This was his point. (OP, correct me if I'm wrong.)

Re: IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied.

IlluX — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 21:38:20 GMT

Exactly that was my point. IP68 is a defined standard. End of story, no discussions. There is no "IP68 but...", IP68 states minimum requirements, anything below would mean Sony lied. The end.

Oh, and please stick to the discussion, ok? Waterproof, water resistant, that is semantics.

Re: IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied.

feskey — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 23:51:41 GMT

IP68 standard definitely means you can work underwater for a certain time (water proof),not water resistant.

Some chinese users reported their XZP has water and water mist inside the XZP by just gently touch a little water. I do not know this is individual phenomenon or not ,but it's there.

https://tieba.baidu.com/p/5158800886

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